The life cycle of a building is that it is you know, 80% of it is dirt when it's being occupied and utilized. The rest of it is during design and construction phase.
Josh Miles, Host:Welcome to the Bold Brand Show. If you're in the AEC industry and want to grow your firm, we're sharing exactly how bold and innovative firms win more. The sad truth is most firms that are struggling in the AEC industry are still doing things the way we've always done them, but this show is about finding a better way. I'm your host and founder of Bold Brand, Josh Miles. I'm a published author, veteran of the TEDx stage, and a brand strategist with over twenty five years of experience.
Josh Miles, Host:But my superpower is my focus on AEC firms to understand how branding and marketing in the professional services industries is wildly different than for retail brands like Apple, Amazon, or Starbucks. So in this podcast, we're going deep with AEC firm leaders, marketers, and innovators in the AEC industry. We'll focus on the hottest topics and trends in AEC to uncover the growth secrets of the most successful firms and how firms can create lasting legacies and perhaps what the future has in store. I've got a special deal to share with you from my friends at BizNow. I regularly head up BizNow events here in Denver, and honestly, they're my go to for networking and commercial real estate and AEC.
Josh Miles, Host:Each month, they pull together these great panels with heavy hitting speakers who actually know what's happening right now in different markets. Not just theory, but real deals and trends. What's cool is they're not just a Denver thing. They run these events across the country. So if you're looking to stay on top of market shifts or wanna connect with people making moves in CRE, it's worth checking out.
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Josh Miles, Host:On today's episode, we're chatting with my friend, Michael Geary. Michael has over thirty years of leadership experience with associations and nonprofit organizations. Currently, he serves as the president and CEO of the International Facility Management Association or IFMA. Founded in 1980, IFMA is the world's largest and most widely recognized organization for facility management professionals, supporting over 25,000 members in more than a 40 countries. Previously, Mike was the chief executive officer of the Society for Marketing Professional Services or S and PS and the S and PS Foundation, serving over 7,400 marketing and business development professionals in the architecture, engineering, and construction industries.
Josh Miles, Host:His career also includes serving as the president and CEO of the American Hort and Horticultural Research Institute, concurrently led the Ohio Produce Growers and Marketers Association, and the Nursery and Landscape Association executives of North America. Earlier in his career, Michael was executive director of the American Institute of Architecture students and held senior staff roles at the National Association of Home Builders and the Delta Chi Fraternity and the North American Intra Fraternity Council. And, of course, Mike and I worked together in our previous roles at SMPS where we rolled out the rebrand in the new Markindium series and navigated a little thing called the pandemic. Michael, welcome to the Bold Brand Show.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Thank you, Josh. I had actually forgotten about the pandemic, so thank you for bringing that up. That's good. Yeah. And it's funny, not so funny, but interesting, as organizations right now are thinking about the impact of the tariff war, if you will.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:I'm not making a political statement, but, you know, the the the issues around the economy, tariffs, travel, etcetera, we're like, okay. Well, let's get that pandemic playbook off the shelf because we learned a lot during that time about how to adjust quickly to unexpected changes, economically, socially, otherwise. And so we're all kinda like, not we're not reliving the pandemic. That'd be dramatic. But to say that, but we're definitely thinking like, oh, well, what did we do?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:How did we run our businesses differently? What did we learn from that experience? Because some of that may be relevant today. Yeah. So it's unfortunate.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Have to think of it in that context, but everybody gets it and understands it because it was just a few years ago.
Josh Miles, Host:Yeah. Definitely. Well, on our show, we wanna learn about what you're thinking about and challenges you're facing and the successes that you've had and and some of the boldest moves that you've made. And, you know, coincidentally, one of the reasons that I'm even speaking to you today is because of IFMA. And when you took that job with IFMA, I was like, I probably wouldn't even be here today if it wasn't for IFMA.
Josh Miles, Host:I get introduced to the Indianapolis chapter of Ithma when I was a very young professional, and I got invited to speak at one of their meetings on website design, I think. And I remember telling this group of professionals who are, you know, much older and wiser than I that if you have your mission statement on your website, you should probably take it off because nobody cares. And I remember that was the thing that's everybody told me afterwards. They were like
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Right.
Josh Miles, Host:That was the craziest thing that you just walked into the room and told people nobody cares about their mission. But but the, the IFMA chapter in Indianapolis was really great and was kind of my, gateway drug to S and PS, if you will. So, so I'm I'm a big fan of of IFMA and and the things that it's done done for me in my my career. Yeah.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Good. Well, I'm a big fan of Ithma too because it's helping my career. So we have that in common. The continuation of.
Josh Miles, Host:Yeah. No kidding. I mean, you've spent, as we said in your in your bio, most of your career in the membership association world and AEC and S and PS, and and now you're on the facility manager side. Or as we used to say, kind of in the S and PS world, like, kind of more of the owners and the the the users, the operators, the buildings. When you think about S and PS and Ithma, are they more similar than they are different?
Josh Miles, Host:Are they really different? What's going on? I mean, you're you're in a global organization now with a 40 countries, I think we said.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Sure. Today.
Josh Miles, Host:Yeah. How how are how are things similar or different, from from S and PS?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:How long is this podcast? Because I think there's a lot to cover, Josh, to, you know, answer that succinctly, which is I have a hard time doing that anyway. But, you know, I think so the commonality is we're a membership organization, and we're serving people who are committed to some profession, to a career, to profession, to growing a business, to taking care of society, their communities, to the world. You can make it small. You can make it large.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:So that that's the commonality. Right? We're all what we're trying to do as organizations is to connect people in a similar profession or a profession with similar, tasks, jobs, responsibilities so they can learn from each other and then also assist them with advancing or or, moving forward, expanding, you know, pick the word that, helps this career profession grow, understanding, like, the technology, opportunities, working with governments, working with community organizations so that they are doing a better job of meeting the needs of their communities or meeting the needs of their clients. So, you know, IFMA is not not unusual in that respect, though it might be global. We are local everywhere where IFMA is.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:So whether or not we are a chapter in Ghana or a chapter in Singapore or a chapter in Indianapolis, they all have the same purpose and mission. It doesn't matter where they are. They take this global structure organization and all of its products and services, but really deliver it locally. And so every organization is like that, whether they're just a little organization in one community or they're they're a global organization. It's about helping people.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:You know, the the the differences really would just be scale, I guess. I mean, like any business, have in the built environment, you know, we have small AEC firms who just specialize on a very specific type of building or in one city, and then there are, of course, global architecture, engineering, construction firms. They're all doing the same thing, just the scale is different. That's all. I mean, it's ultimately still people trying to serve other people and help them make their lives better and make the world better as well.
Josh Miles, Host:Maybe this is hard to put a finger on given that you're you're so broad around the world, but what would you say is is either the hottest issue that Ithma is facing right now or that that your members are dealing with, or what are kind of some of the top ones across the world?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:The the hottest issue, I think, has been around for a bit, so I I don't think it's, an acute issue per se, but that is relevancy. And so this is what's very interesting to me as a per as a professional that's been working in the built environment for a long time. There's a whole lot of organizations dedicated to design and construction and then all their products and services that go into that, from, you know, project management software, etcetera. So if my sort of on the tail end of that, And so this is what's really intriguing to me about working with this organization is taking all that knowledge and experience and then helping the working with the organization, the people that say, okay. Now we'll take the building from you.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:The life cycle of a building is that it is you know, 80% of it is dirt when it's being occupied and utilized. The rest of it is during this design and construction phase. This is true, I think, when you sit in the seat, when you're in the non owner seat is people having making sure that people understand what you do is important and why it's relevant to them, what to their business. And so, among the hot topics would be ensuring that facility managers are positioned correctly for success to help their owners be successful and have having people understand what that looks like and what the opportunity is, that these are these jobs are relevant and necessary. In fact, in some governments around the world, they identify facility managers facility management as a requirement, if you will, for you know, if they were to make any changes that you know, if facility managers are the last ones out the door, they are necessary to the success of that entity.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:And same thing with many corporations. It's you know, their job is to protect the assets. And so the hot topic is making sure and continuing to ensure their the relevancy and validity of the profession. With that, and it's hard to really you know, I'm not gonna necessarily say sort of multiple things, is the ongoing issue around sustainability, resiliency, etcetera. So one of the things we're working on right now and really kinda starting to organize conversations around is this circular circular economy that is buildings are refreshing, furniture, equipment, whatever it might be, that just not going off to the landfill, but that Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:We can it can be reused somewhere else. In fact, there are companies dedicated to refurbishing office equipment, for example. So that's never going away. Like, it's just how do what's our role in ensuring that there's sustainability and resiliency? And it's more than just you know, it's also contributing to concerns about energy efficiency.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:And but that comes down to the bottom line is the bottom line for owners that ensure that they're being financially sustainable and resilient as well. And what is the role of facility management in in supporting all of that? You know, the other issue, I think, is just, you know, social equity. We're we're we're committed to ensuring that the right people are being hired into companies, and there's opportunities for all. And while there's different ways to approach that around the world, we are around the world, and so we think about that differently.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:And what it means culturally in different parts of the world, how do we help people advance and get opportunities into their careers or for their careers and for their families? So, you know, as an example, we may take for granted here in The United States that, you work for a company, they're gonna pay for your professional development. You want a credential. You wanna be a certified facility manager. Your employer will probably pay for that.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:They'll support you getting the books and going to a conference. Well, that's not universally true. We have members in other parts of the world that they have to pay for that themselves, and, they realize they've they've realized what how that's important to them. So it's a different approach and attitude by employers globally about how to support the development of people. And that's what I mean by equity is that how do we make it possible for people who are in this profession to suit to succeed, and what do we do as an organization to facilitate that?
Josh Miles, Host:So is that part of the pitch of why join Ithma, why to be a member, who should be the member? Like, what's what does that kind of value proposition look like?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Yeah. Well, you know, I've we offer, you know, the value proposition includes a couple of things, but that's that is one of them for sure is that, we have different pricing, for membership around the world. So we ensure that there is a entry level is accessible for everyone in their context. Other people and other things people care about, I should say, is that they are contributing to some global good or some community good. They're very excited about design.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:They're excited by about construction, so we wanna make sure they're being exposed to that as well. So the value proposition is we will support you, and we'll figure out how to make that happen to say kinda simplistic in a simple way. And so what that means here in The States versus what it means in Europe and what it means in Africa or in The Middle East, we flex to that to support support individuals there.
Josh Miles, Host:We know you and I both enjoy nerding out on techie stuff and technology and Right. All the all the new things. Anything exciting sort of in the technology side of the world that, applies to Ithma and your membership?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Yeah. Well, you know, as technology is evolving to support communications as, you know, you're you're connected to, also evolving is the use of artificial intelligence in managing buildings. And, so we're we are addressing that issue as an organization. We're supporting the conversation around that with both software designers and the end users so that buildings become more efficient in their operations. It's not about having less people.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:It's about making sure we have the right people doing the right things. And so there are some things that can be done by technology, by artificial intelligence, you know, crunching the numbers, analyzing energy efficiency, analyzing space usage, you know, that can be done more quickly and be done more efficiently, but there still needs to be a person to interpret that information and then activate on it and make to make a change. So AI, for sure, while we you know, the general person and uses and thinks about, okay. I'm gonna help you write an email message or help me write a write, you know, a a blog, if you will. Well, we're using AI to really to run buildings.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:And the other related to that is understanding also the long term viability of buildings. So using technology, to, make decisions long term about the efficiency and the value of the building. It is an asset. And so we're working on a new new program now about building life cycle management and understanding, how long can a building last, how do we how do we utilize its capacity long term, but also look at it from an asset perspective that, buildings get bought and sold all the time. And so when you're buying a building, you're not just buying concrete and windows, you're also buying this knowledge base.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:And that's a technology evolution as well as being able to create a knowledge base for each building that is considered an asset to it as well. So it goes along with the keys to the next owner.
Josh Miles, Host:That's that's a really interesting take that I wouldn't have thought of, there being a knowledge base for the building. What what would be some of the things that are included in that in a given facility?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Well, everything, to say something. Right? All the things. You know, energy usage, the equipment, life, you know, the life, the, the age of equipment, you know, things that may just you're not gonna just have it on a piece of paper.
Josh Miles, Host:Well, it's it's like you buy a used car from a guy who's really taking care of it, and he he pulls out his binder of all the oil changes, and every time you get it waxed, and every time you
Michael V. Geary, CAE:get the Yeah. Instead of getting the binder, you're gonna get all the facets of what works. You know, there's so many components in a building from lighting, elevators, doorways, security systems, you know, etcetera, etcetera, that it's impossible to have all that in a three ring binder. And so that's the kind of information that that technology that software is collecting and, having the life cycle of it, the life history of it so that you understand and can use to make decisions later. So what are assets that need to gonna be retired in at some point so you can plan for that for capital planning?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Okay. This elevator has been there for five years. It's had these issues. Well, now you can have that centralized, and that's what's evolving is have all that centralized so that a new owner or even the current owner understands, okay. Well, in ten years now, you when you own your home, you live in it, and you're like, oh, I just put the roof on, so I know I've got twenty, thirty years.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:It's just kind of a good guess. Right? You that's a you can't guess at a larger office building or an automobile manufacturing plant. You know, lots of institutions, governments, universities, health care need to plan for decades out, and they need that information to make good capital planning decisions.
Josh Miles, Host:You know, one of the issues that we see a lot in the professional services world, especially, is kind of this generational conversation about, you know, the different generations coming to the workforce, but then also the generational kind of hand me down of ownership of the of the firms themselves. I'm curious, like, what how the generational issues are specifically impacting your world.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Well, I I think it's it's well, yeah, I would say that some of that exists for sure. Right? It depends on the size of the companies. So meaning, people who own companies own buildings are not necessarily the management. Often owners hire management companies, and those can be very small.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:They're sort of regional or regional or city based. And then, of course, there are global companies that handle Coca Cola manufacturing plants around the world or or a certain sector, certain part of the world, they may manage Coca Cola's plants on behalf of Coca Cola owners. So the generational things and ownership are not I don't think are the same necessarily as you would find among engineering, architecture, and construction firms because often those start with a person who say, oh, I wanna be an architect. I'm gonna start a practice. They get a partner.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:They get another partner. They grow a business. Same thing people, you know, like yourself in marketing, consulting services, your you know, you start off as your own, and then you grow your book of business. And over time, you need more people. And so the ownership structure builds differently.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:That that it doesn't exist, but the scale can be different in design and construction. It might be in the facility management facility management. But what is happening generationally, which is, I think, is consistent with everybody else is people are entering this industry, and then where are the career opportunities for them? And they work differently too than older generations. What can they do from their homes versus having to be in the building every day?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:So they're let's say, an office building. If the occupants there are not working in the building necessarily, does everyone who's involved with facility management need to be in the building to do their jobs? Mhmm. So there's certainly on-site responsibilities to see and witness and supervise operations, elevators working, escalators working, etcetera. Right?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:I'm not talking about custodial activities, but the infrastructure is working properly. But there's now there are things you can do from your laptop anywhere in the world.
Josh Miles, Host:Sure.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:So we have members in our in our organization that can that work maybe sort of based in cities somewhere, some country, but working in another country temporarily or longer term because they can access all the technology and information from where they are. So I I there's the generational opportunities, I think, are very similar other than perhaps the ownership structures.
Josh Miles, Host:You know, it's probably a a naive thought on my part, but, you know, in my head, a facility manager is boots on the ground literally that they are physically at the location. But so are there are there, like, fractional facility managers who are managing multiple properties, you know, from from Tahiti or Sheboygan or wherever they're located.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Well, yeah, let's talk about our, members of our board, for example. We have a global board of directors who are all over the world, and I know many of them, have a large portfolio portfolio of businesses or facilities that their company manages. So they might be based in Mexico City, but they're not just working on they're not head of facilities just for those buildings in Mexico City for their client. They're looking at their clients' businesses everywhere. So there are people who are boots on the ground for sure, who are making sure things are happening and are there in case of any emergencies, etcetera, but then so the strategic management doesn't have to be doesn't have to be on-site.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:They can be anywhere in the world literally.
Josh Miles, Host:That's that's really I don't know why that it even crossed my mind before.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Sure. Yeah. You know, facility manager is a very broad term, but what we're talking about is really literally the management and the strategic planning for facilities. And, but it does include making sure all of the regular daily operations are occurring also. Light bulbs are being changed and toilets are working, and, you know, there's a custodial staff that's cleaning.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:There's security on-site. But as the Internet of Things evolves, so many of those things don't have to be monitored from the building itself.
Josh Miles, Host:Is that, the IoT Internet of Things thing? Is that an increasing factor in how facilities get managed today? I know that was a very hot topic, like, pre pandemic and sort of I feel like I hear less about it today. So I'm just curious how that's impacting your your teams as well.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Yeah. Well, absolutely. That continues. I mean, everything from, you know, beverage machines that might be in the in the cafeteria are connected to Internet now. And, but also that the actual, equipment in the buildings, we may think of these little, you know, beverage machine or a light lighting system or the shades on a window or or cameras, for example, you're like, of course, they're all connected, but so are also the huge pieces of equipment.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:The HVAC systems are all connected now by Internet. So the operational technology is evolving, increasing as well as we understand the opportunities, how to use technology. So it's all being interconnected and working together. That's one of the challenges in the design construction and then they hand over to the facility managers. And this is what where if my is putting some focus as well is, excuse me, is help helping to understand helping design and constructors understand that when you're done, the building is not done.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Now the building comes to life. Mhmm. So that's where facility management comes in. And so we need to be connected early on into the design and construction process so that when you get to actually managing this building, we also have all of that information where that goes into now how we take care of it and back to the point of transferring all over to the new owner. But it there's a disconnect, generally speaking, between the design and construction and the facility management.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:So but technology is helping to bridge that gap.
Josh Miles, Host:Well, that that was literally what I wanted to ask you next was how what role do facility managers typically play in the design and construction conversation, and and should they be involved earlier, or is that kind of a handoff at the end? Or, like, what's what's that right connection?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Well, of course, the answer is yes. Yes. They should be involved early on. Right? And that's one of our mission is to part of our mission is to, you know, be part of that solution so that the built environment is growing and evolving, where everyone can everyone's participating in that process.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:So, yes, it does happen. It doesn't happen. Depends on the company, you know, currently, the ownership. You know, some ownership companies have facility managers who participate in that process with the design team, and then others don't. And so they can they may have directly employed or outsourcing that.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:You know, like any any industry, there's always opportunity for making things more Moe better as a friend of mine used
Josh Miles, Host:to say.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Alright. So we're trying to make things Moe better by being much more integrated in the design, construction, and then the, ultimately, the management of that.
Josh Miles, Host:Well, how could folks in the the built environment conversation on the design side or, you know, designers and architects, you know, how could they incorporate the facility managers better into their initial plan or recommendations?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Yes. Well, you know, the couple of things that sort of selfish, of course, is, you know, going to Ithma for solutions, And we have a whole resource library that that's available, to individuals, professionals to understand the role of facility management and why you should know about this. We're also trying to collaborate with and have been doing this for years. And, again, as always, it's an evolution and a growing opportunity to collaborate with all the other organizations from AIA, the construction managers, construction specification, the HVAC folks. Like, there's so many entities, you know, that are around the built environment that we're all trying to collaborate and partner with each other.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:We are doing that, I should say. We're not trying to. We are doing it and trying to share that knowledge base, but there's so much knowledge. I was thinking about this story the other day with to share with you. You know, a lot of people eat eat, at Chick fil A.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:And so when you if you get a chicken sandwich at Chick fil A or you get a soda, whatever it is, every time you buy something or you ask for something, an employee says, my pleasure.
Josh Miles, Host:Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Here you go. My pleasure. They all say, my pleasure.
Josh Miles, Host:Yes.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Well, that was that started as a request from Chick fil A headquarters, and they wanted all their outlets, all their employees to say, my pleasure. And you would think that's a really simple thing to put into the training, and that would just happen. Like, okay. This is how you make the chicken sandwich. This is how you pour soda.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:And then when you hand it to someone, you say, my pleasure. Well, the analysis or the story about this, it actually took a couple years before all other outlets said, my pleasure. So think about the knowledge base of design, construction, and management. It's gonna take more than a couple years for all of us to say, my pleasure
Josh Miles, Host:Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:If you will. And so that that is one of the things I'm working on. My peers who are leading other organizations, we talk frequently, like, okay. What more can we add into your content base content or knowledge base? What can you add into our knowledge base?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:So that over the years, we'll all just get better at this. And when you design a building, you construct it, and then, in our case, hand it over to us as, like, my pleasure. Here's a building that's been built and designed cooperatively
Josh Miles, Host:Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:For sure. But we also speak to not just, you know, design and construction. We also talk to ownership groups as well. Institutional owners, government, or otherwise, talk about the role and value facility management to make sure they're involved in their decision making as well. So it's not just a great price per square footage, but what is it gonna look like, and what does it need five years, ten years, twenty twenty, thirty years, you know, depending on the lease, but also what do you need tomorrow to make sure you're effectively using this asset on behalf of whether taxpayers or, you know, public or behalf of your private clients.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:You know, they're getting the right, the right value out of their building.
Josh Miles, Host:Okay. So maybe this is a generalization, but when you think about how architects and engineers, people who design for a building, what are some things that might be surprising to them that they don't understand about the role of a facility manager?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Well, I one thing I would think about, Josh, first is that I don't wanna generalize too narrowly, meaning that design education, construction standards, and processes, and materials vary around the world. And so I wanna be careful I'm not answering on behalf of a western society, and this is how they happen. Right? So there's sort of gross generalization that you could probably start from beginning. One, in design education, generally, you're now learning about you're not spending a lot of time on materials and usage.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:There's a little bit of that in your design education, but not a whole lot of time. Engineers, again, generalizing the thinking about making sure the thing doesn't fall down, that it's the right structure, you know, that it can handle any sort of energy issues or environmental issues, I should say. But the concern about, like, what happens next main is not taught more than a little more than a little bit. That's a technical term. More than a little in design schools and in engineering schools.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:I know this because I worked with design and engineering schools for part of my career. Mhmm. And they've always you know, academics always say, I wish we could do more of that. But there just isn't the amount there isn't enough time to teach everything you need to know. So, you know, also depending on where you are in the world, you're exposed to different materials.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:But, you know, what you're using for windows and doors and exterior materials, etcetera, vary around the world in their access and affordability. So but to grossly generalize that the having not having the understanding of what now happens in the next ten, twenty, thirty years for a building let me flip it to say, if if you were had the understanding of that and more a more in-depth understanding, therefore, you would may maybe make different decisions. And so once people move into the building, whatever it might be, any sort of office building or a public facility or some sort of institutional building, it isn't until people are using it they realize, oh, this doesn't work Mhmm. Or this is not the right material. I thought it was, but now the facility managers are the ones who have to figure it out.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:They have to budget for it. I'm not saying these are mistakes. I think it's just that there's just so much to know, the knowledge that it's impossible to transfer all of that from all the to all the different parties who are involved. When you think about, you know, the number of companies involved in designing a building, whether it's a gas station convenience store or a shopping mall or you're building a UN relief center, somewhere in the world, there's a whole lot of people and companies involved in all that. And I know everyone's just trying to do their best, but that's that's the whole purpose of a group like IFMA and the whole purpose of, other global organizations is to help bridge that divide.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:And if we can't teach everybody, what we can do is teach the people who are directly involved in in managing those facilities and give them some insight. But that you know, every every piece of knowledge and profession grows over time. So what we're doing today, of course, is way better than it was five years ago, ten years ago, certainly a hundred years ago, where there may not have been a bigger concern. We've been around for forty five years. That tells you that gives you some context of, Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Is a profession where there's a professional organization that's only forty five years old. Now we're not the only one in the world. We are the only global organization, but many countries have a we have have a peer organization of ours that services specifically people in their country.
Josh Miles, Host:Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:People may may belong to both. Often, they do. We do have we have the global certification program, but there's just so much knowledge that that what so the answer back to your question is, like, what can we what do people need to know? It'd be easy to say everything, but I I think in project design and delivery, if we can get the in the early days for someone to maybe talk to the facility manager of the owner directly and say, what are what have been the biggest challenges that you had? Let's make sure we're designing for that to solve those problems.
Josh Miles, Host:Yeah. I love that. As you know, a lot of my experiences on the the marketing and branding side of things, so I'm so I'm always curious organizations large and small and organization as large as IFMA is. What are some of the challenges that you have in differentiating or getting your story out or sort of developing your reputation as a brand?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Yeah. My pleasure. Right? I think that story applies there. And there's so much distraction in the world, and this is I I don't think we're unique in our challenges of providing being a service provider is how having getting to have every member in the organization understand what's available to them literally at their fingers at their fingertips or might be available to them locally wherever they they belong to Ithma, again, whether it's in London or in Rome or in Indianapolis, that the network and how valuable and important that can be to them.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Until you're in it, you don't know it, really. So that is, you know, always an ongoing challenge. It's just sort of general awareness in what's happening, but we're evolving like any any organization. We are excuse me. Of course, we're very fortunate that we have resources so we can invest in technology.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:We can invest in people to, tell our story frequently, more effectively, whether we're using video. But we also have, we're not doing everything from our global headquarters in United States. We have people in other parts of the world who, are also telling the story that makes sense to them and their region to ensure that we are addressing cultural differences, geographic differences, language differences, etcetera. So we're not Americanizing this organization. We are making sure to the best of our ability that if you belong in a European chapter, you're hearing stories and getting content in a way that is typical for where you live
Josh Miles, Host:Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:And not for the way that may work in Singapore. So we have variety of variety of strategies globally to ensure that we're we're talking to people that they they want to be talked to, if you will. But it all comes down to the typical people issues. There's another story that I love to tell many years ago in the, New York Times. They used to have a standing Sunday, column called the CEO Corner, and they would interview a CEO of some company.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:It could be national or global, and they would talk about, like, how they got into their jobs, what are their biggest challenges, etcetera, etcetera. And one interview, was a person who's a CEO of a communications company. This this is a company that corporate America hires to handle all their social media for them. They may handle their online chat, their Twitter, Instagram, Blue Sky, whatever they're using. Their job is to facilitate all that on behalf of the company.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:And, the question was to the CEO. Like, what's one of your biggest challenges in your company? And she said, ironically, it is we can't all of our employees do not know what's going on. And even though we have regular staff meetings, and this is a larger company Yeah. She says, even though we do all these things, internal newsletters, we have a Internet, we have meetings, our employees still say, what the hell is happening in my company?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:What are we doing? Right? She says, and that's our job is to do that on behalf of other people. So Mhmm. This is sort of the typical people issues of encouraging people to pay attention to read.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:And it's always challenging to be at the right place at the right time, and so we're thinking about that all the time. What's our what's the next thing? How do we use AI to better communicate automatically for us so we're responsive? How do we use videos, I said? Are we in the right social media channels?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Are we using the right imagery? The video is too long, too short, whatever. Like, it's all the same. It's all the same. And, yeah, you know, AEC firms, people who do branding and marketing for those companies.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Same thing.
Josh Miles, Host:Well, you mentioned video a couple times. I know I'm I'm a little biased in that video Yeah.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:That's why I keep saying it.
Josh Miles, Host:Yeah. It's now, like, over half of what I do now is video, and, like Yeah. Even even the podcast now is video. So, you know, we've Google came out with some report, late last year about YouTube and saying that the the most successful videos were between something like thirteen seconds and forty five minutes. So the the answer is the length doesn't actually matter, but it's it's about how you're in using that video to engage the audience and, you know, are you gonna watch an hour long podcast with with you and I or, you know, watch a thirteen second clip about how crayons get made on a conveyor belt?
Josh Miles, Host:And the answer is yes to all those things if it kinda ticks your boxes. But I'm I'm curious specifically in video if if there's anything that that you've seen be successful with IFMA. I mean, the thing that I always say to my my friends and clients is, you know, this is such a such a know, like, and trust industry. And I I don't know of a medium that gets that across better than video does because it's like a like a free sample for it's the it's the Chick fil A at the mall where you get to try the nugget, and then you get to my pleasure. But but how are you guys thinking about video specifically, or is that is that a future step for you?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Well, I like I said, I don't think we have we're any different as an organization. It's an organization of people serving people, and we understand all that. I mean, as a leader, you know, I can hope and dream that people are going to watch an hour long training video. But by the way, we want our surgeons and our engineers and our facility managers to watch an hour long video so they're getting all the information they need. Right?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:I don't want a thirteen second how to do open heart surgery, and nor do I want someone who's managing and overlooking important infrastructure, life safety infrastructure in a building to watch just a thirteen second video and say, I got it. You know? So I think it depends on context and what the content is that you're trying to inform people on, and what's the entertainment value for sure is very important. You know? So let's remember back, what, ten years ago or longer, you know, Amazon came in and, you know, they now are delivering same day in a lot of metropolitan cities around the world Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Or wherever Amazon's doing business. Well, that's creating an expectation on everybody. Like, I order something now, and they're like, we'll see you in ten days. I'm like, oh, do I really want that thing? Right.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Right? Could I go somewhere else to get it faster? So we're being trained to change our behavior and expectations. I'm trying I was trying to learn how to use Microsoft OneNote. It was new to me.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:It's a different system than my last organization. Mhmm. So I'm learning how to use OneNote to manage my my tasks and notes, etcetera. Never really used it before, so I went to YouTube and pulled up videos. And there's, oh, this, you know, subject line.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:I'm like, oh, this is exactly what I wanna know. This is a very specific thing. Like, how to use tags? Click on the link, and I see twelve minutes. I'm like, nope.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Right. I don't know. I don't think that should take twelve minutes to teach me how to use tags. But Right. A little side note, though.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:You know, there is a bit of a conflict of interest because YouTube is incentivizing longer videos. They want you to be on the screen. So you can see that when you are reading a, you know, a blog even, not just YouTube, or you're watching a video, people are intentionally making things or Instagram longer, so there's more time on the video, which is more eyes on advertising. So and you can't skip through it anymore. But what what Google is doing or YouTube is now you get a transcript.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:And so I just read through the transcript quickly and say, oh, that's what I wanna know. Click. It takes me to that part of the video. So we're not there yet to your point your question as in our training to do that, but we are we are looking at things about making it easier to translate videos so that our global audience can watch our videos, which are primarily in English, so they can watch it in their language, they can choose it. That's a very expensive and long term proposition, but that's something we're gonna have to work we are working on.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:But, you know, back to my earlier point, it depends on what the content is. So some things are just you have to take time to read it or watch it, and some things you can get done in a quick snippet. But that also, I think, expresses or or something built into that as a value of why you should go to in person events, because you can get information more quickly sitting in the room and do follow-up as well that you're not gonna get online. So you need both. History, many years ago, this is my last story of the past.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Well, I've been in this business a long time. Twenty five years ago or maybe longer when satellite technology became affordable, many of you may remember Kinkos. Remember Kinkos is where you went to get things photocopied. And Kinkos is now I think, that was bought by FedEx. It's now a FedEx office.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:But back in the day, satellite technology is becoming a thing, and Kinko set up satellite studios in their bill in their, retail outlets. So you could go to a Kinko studio and connect by satellite to another Kinko studio where your colleagues would be having meetings. You'd have a meeting over satellite. This is before Internet. Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Mhmm. And everybody thought, oh my god. That's the end of conferences. Why would you ever get on a plane anymore? You could just go down to your neighborhood Kinkos, or you could go down to the local community college.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:They were also doing the same thing. They were creating studios out of for satellite studios as a as a profit generating activity for the colleges. Like, that's it. We're never going to conferences again. Guess what?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:We're still going to conferences. We still have a social need to be together. So technology will not erase that, fortunately. Now pandemics will get in the way, but as soon as we could get back in the room together, we all got back in the room together. So we need video.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:We need in person. You know, technology is not gonna solve all of these issues for us.
Josh Miles, Host:So one of the things I remember you saying it even early days at S and PS is, know, having worked with all these other associations, you're like, I I know it's a totally different association. We've got different goals. There are so many similarities in how you work with the board and work with the membership and how decisions get made and things like that. Yep. So I'm I'm curious coming to IFMA, kind of what some of your even though you promised not to tell another historical story, I'm asking you another historical question here.
Josh Miles, Host:So you Yeah. This you get a free pass. So what are what do you find that you're bringing to this either from your past association work or what other industries are you looking to that you're thinking, you know, along the lines of Amazon? Like, do we do it faster? What are what are some of the things that are are driving the change that you wanna see?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Yes. Well, fortunately, we do have companies like Amazon and, you know, Google and Meta, etcetera, who they are spending the money on the wild wild west, on the frontier of technology improvements. And then later, you know, we're down the line, we will get used to that too. And so the affordability gets, you know, the affordability comes along eventually. And but we also have an obligation or expectation that we're going to have to keep up with what these corporate corporations are doing because they're as I said earlier, they're setting the expectation for customer service, for delivery, etcetera.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:I mean, even the things that that's necessarily an ifma thing, but just something we haven't really mentioned is, you know, if you order something from Amazon or Wayfair here in the here in The US anyway, Wayfair sends you the wrong thing. You call them up and say, I wanted blue. You sent me purple. They'll say, great. Keep it.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Don't send it back to us because it it's too much effort and money to send it back to us.
Josh Miles, Host:Right.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Right? So, you know, that's kind of becoming an expectation now. If you screw it up, you better make it right. I mean, that's they say differently. Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:You always expect a company to make it right, but now the right is like, just keep the thing, and we're not gonna worry about it. So that's a yeah. I think that's emerging as a customer expectation. You know, don't make me give you back the coffee that's bad. I'd like to keep and drink it even though it's not like the way I wanted it, but go ahead and give me the one that I really wanted.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:So from other organizations, I you know, what how organizations like IFMA and SMPS and, you know, name in a good name in organization from association to local charitable organization. Probably two things that are important. One is good governance and that you have a board that selected you have the right people selected to be on a board, that they're bringing some they're obviously bringing the the right experience to what their responsibilities are. They understand their responsibilities. And a lot of the job or responsibility of a board is to be strategic and be thinking down the road.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:What is going to happen with this food bank or this housing relief agency or IFMA that we need to think about three, four, five years down the road? Ten years is way too long now. It's really kind of three years is kind of a horizon at at this point because the world is constantly evolving very quickly. So really good government governance that you have the right people sitting in the boardroom helping to make decisions. And then the other thing and these are all people issues.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:You're having the right people if you have you're able to excuse me. Whether you're paying people or they're volunteers, you're selecting the right people, which is what you hope you're doing, but the point I wanna make is that you're training them, that you're giving them an opportunity to learn skills. You can tell when you go to McDonald's which employees have been trained and which have not. What
Josh Miles, Host:Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:You can see a difference between and I worked at McDonald's long time ago as a shift manager. In my store where I worked, you did not go on the front line unless you were trained
Josh Miles, Host:Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Period. And or you weren't cooking until you were trained. And the store, you just kinda sucked it up as a manager to say, well, I can't let, you know, Bob get out on the front line yet because he's not seen the customer service videos yet. We're watching video back then, VHS tapes or beta. Actually, they're beta tapes.
Josh Miles, Host:You gotta wheel the television in.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Yep. We we had a television on the cart. You have to watch, you know, the you had to watch a video about the the brand of McDonald's. You'd have to watch a video about how to run the register. Then there was a separate video on how to bag food.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:There's a lot of training that went into before you were allowed to be on their front line. And since I know that and now that everybody your listeners know this, you can figure out, like, which store McDonald's is taking the time to train people. Mhmm. And so that is the people issue in any organization that you're training your people, you're you're coaching them, you're managing, you're supervising, whatever it is so that they could be successful. So I that's you know, to your question, what do I bring into IFMA is I've been fortunate to work in organizations that had good strong cultures around that, cultures I also get impact and effect to, ensure that we were selecting and then, preparing people for success.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:And, fortunately, IFMA has the same attitude, and that's something we'll continue on. I have three three words that I use with our team all the time, things that are my priorities, which are people, culture, and growth. And they all go together, like personal growth, organizational growth. People and culture, culture affects people, growth. It's all interconnected.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:And if you think about it, again, if you can visit different retailers wherever you are in the world based on where the culture is in that country, it's gonna differ. But you can tell if people are taking the time to talk about culture and growth and and people issues with their with their employees. Starbucks, I think, is a good model that you can tell everyone's been trained. They are not taking your order unless they have had some training, and, therefore, they're gonna get it right most of the time. And so that's, I think, an important lesson.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:I always make sure that there's a budget for professional development. When I'm in the process of being recruited to be a CEO, there's something I talk about with the recruitment committee is ensuring that there will be resources available to the team for their professional development. On day one at Ithma, I said to the team, there are resources, and I'm gonna make sure you continue to have them because it's important for me and important for the organization that you're investing in yourself, and we will make that available to you.
Josh Miles, Host:Well, I love that quote about, you know, what if what if we invest in all this professional development in our team and they leave, and then the CEO says, well, what if we don't and they stay?
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Yes. I actually have that as a graphic, and I show that in my first meeting with our IFMA team. And I said, that's how committed I am to this, just to be kinda really candid. I I didn't use these words, but the the implication is we want you working here, and we're gonna make sure you're successful here. Yeah.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:I don't want you here to not be successful. Mhmm. And I want you to know that we got your back, and we'll take care of you and and all the ways that we can take care of you. That is the people issue. And, Josh, you and I may remember back when we were working together at S and PS during the pandemic, we identified those priorities.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:We reinforced those priorities at that time. Mhmm. I remember you and I talked about this. You were the CMO and some of our other executive staff. And we said our priority is to take care of the people, both our employees and our members, to the best of our ability that we could do that.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:And if we do that well, then, we'll be taking care of the organization. And these these are not profound things. We just have to say it over and over and over again so we can't forget it. You know, Barnes and Noble is full of books, but it's pretty simple stuff. Just focus on the people, and everything else will happen.
Josh Miles, Host:Yeah. So simple. It sounds profound. I think that's, that's probably a good place to leave it. Tell our, our listeners where they can find more about, you and IFMA.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Well, you might be surprised to learn that our URL is ifma.org, IFMA Org. And there, you can learn about all the things that we're doing, access our resources, learn about our our membership opportunities, our our things that we care about. They're all on that website as well. So that's where you'll find me find IFMA, and then you can find me, of course, on LinkedIn. It's just Michael Geary.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Just put me in the search bar, and you can you'll find my profile there.
Josh Miles, Host:Well, Mike, it was great catching up with you over this interview. We'll have to do this in person Yes, next time, though.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Yeah. I've enjoyed it. Thank you, Josh.
Josh Miles, Host:Yeah. Thanks so much. Yeah. We'll see you next time.
Michael V. Geary, CAE:Okay.
Josh Miles, Host:Thank you for joining us today on the Bold Brand Show. For all of today's show notes and links to our sponsors, head over to boldbrand.show. Be sure to subscribe to our email newsletter where I'll update you on the latest episodes and other exciting things happening at Bold Brand. If you like today's episode, do me a favor and share this episode with a colleague. Over at boldbrand.show, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and everywhere you get your podcasts, including YouTube, where you can watch full versions of each episode and join the conversation by commenting below.
Josh Miles, Host:The Bold Brand Show is produced by yours truly, Josh Miles, and is a product of Bold Brand LLC, a branding and video agency for AEC firms based in Denver, Colorado. Visit boldbrand.com to learn more or hit that orange button up top to schedule a time to chat about your branding or video project. Catch us next time where we chat with another bold innovator in the AEC industry. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.
